Evan Dorkin ([info]evandorkin) wrote,
@ 2009-03-01 11:38:00
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Entry tags:useless crap

Not Watching
So, I'm not going to see Watchmen, mainly because I don't see anything in theaters anymore, and largely because I'm just not interested. Not because of Alan Moore's opinions about the project, it's not a stance, or that they might "ruin" a "classic", I could care less (and the book remains the book, they can't "ruin" my copy or my reading experience) or anything like that. I'm just not interested. I'm not even sure why I've largely lost interest in comic book-based films (and then there's a lack of interest in most modern Hollywood films, by and large, which is a whole 'nother story). Not just the superheroes, I haven't seen the Dan Clowes movies, or the Pekar flick, or much of anything from the past ten or so years. I saw the first Deathnote flick on bootleg DVD a few months ago, but haven't rushed to see the second one. And I pretty much enjoyed the first one. Some kind of fan spark is missing inside my brain that used to be there. I would have lost my mind twenty years ago if my older self stepped out of a time bubble and told my younger self about all these movies coming out. Then my younger self would have shit himself when he heard that not only would there be films out called Iron Man, X-Men, Hulk, Spider-Man, Dark Knight, Watchmen, etc, but I wouldn't go see them. Younger self would kick older self in the crotch and tell him to get the fuck outta here.

I dunno. Now I just shrug. Doesn't make me smarter or better or more mature than anyone who is really gaga for this stuff. Just makes me...burnt out? Uninterested.

That being said, I have only a few, useless observations about what I've seen from the film. The costumes just look ridiculous. The Comedian looks like an idiot, and why he wears a mask, I dunno. Ditto Ozymandias, isn't he famous? Why wear a domino that doesn't hide his face? And a George Clooney Bat-costume. He can afford something nicer, I think.  I didn't get that stuff in the comic, either, but you buy into the costume silliness in a comic more readily than in a flesh and blood film.I just can't take those people seriosuly. Maybe immersed in the film I could, but, well, whatever. Told ya, useless observation.

The only actual complaint I really have is with whatever jagoff came up with the tagline, "From the visionary director of 300" for the ad campaign. I doubt Snyder wrote that. But I'd be friggin' embarrassed to see that plastered all over the earth if I was him. Is a director really a visionary when he's reworking the vision of other people? He's known for a Dawn of the Dead remake, an adapation of 300, and an adaptation of Watchmen. Maybe they're great, I enjoyed Dawn, for the most part. Saw no "vision" in it, other than, "let's use CGI for crowd shots". Maybe there's a "vision" of his own in 300. Like, using the green screen stuff from Sin City? And boarding it off the comic another guy drew? What am I missing here? Anyway, some flack hack says he's a visionary, for adapting the visions of George Romeru, Frank Miller and Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. Huh. Nice. 

 




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[info]bfirrera
2009-03-01 05:07 pm UTC (link)
Actually, "American Splendor" was pretty good. I quite enjoyed when the film would break out of the narration and we'd have moments with the ACTUAL Harvey/Toby/Joyce, etc. It's almost a quarter documentary in that way. Much fun.

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[info]rainofbastards
2009-03-01 05:26 pm UTC (link)
This is how crazy this is:

A) I just came to comment and say the same thing, American Splendor is a genuinely cool movie, well worth watching, especially if you're a comic book writer.

B) I've been addicted to How I Met Your Mother for the past two weeks, and just worked my way through the whole series up through this morning, where, about half an hour ago, I just watched the Naked Man episode from your avatar.

Bfirrera, I think we might be soul mates.

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(no subject) - [info]evandorkin, 2009-03-01 05:33 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]noisyparker, 2009-03-01 06:41 pm UTC (Expand)
Not up on the Gojira. - (Anonymous), 2009-03-04 02:23 am UTC (Expand)

[info]mr_sadhead
2009-03-01 05:32 pm UTC (link)
I've avoided every big box supahero film. I think I may have watched the Chris Reeve Superman film.
The process of filling in the details when reading comics -- blocking the action in your mind, timing the details, even scoring -- are much like making a film, which is probably why so many failed cartoonists wind up as directors (Alex Cox, Robert Rodriguez, Frank Miller). To have an entertainment product with all the blanks filled in is like being given a filled-out Mad Libs book. No fun.

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[info]evandorkin
2009-03-01 05:42 pm UTC (link)
I think my problem is I don't want a superhero film to really "mean" anything. I want Shaw Brothers/Golden Harvest logic and payoff. Sense of wonder, physical feats, wild action, crazy characters, satisfying set pieces and finales. I don't really need deep meaning, pretensions, psycho-babble, meta-anything. Because you're still making a film about a doofus in a copyrighted circus outfit doing goofy, impossible stuff. So just fucking do cool shit and entertain me.

So, I'm glad there are Shaw Bros films. I'd pay to see them on a screen, as ridiculous as most of them are, they do the job for me. I don't lift an eyebrow in interest over Dark Knight, despite the awards and crowds. it looks murky and jerky, I saw an 'action" sequence from it and it was baffling, jerky and poorly paced. And Batmna had glowing tech eyes and it made me laugh. And the suit looked silly, they still can't make a batsuit anyone can move fluidly in (or have peripheral vision in). And what's with that put-on Bat-voice? In live action, it's even more glaring that police commissioners and friends can't tell Bruce Wayne is that idiot with the wrestler voice. I'll take 8-Diagram Pole Fighter or Once Upon a Time in China 1 or 2 over all that glitz, CGI, cuisinart-editing and ponderousness any day.

Different strokes, different etc.

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(no subject) - [info]curt_holman, 2009-03-01 06:39 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]evandorkin, 2009-03-01 07:49 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lou_bevlo, 2009-03-01 08:29 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]clockworkmonkey
2009-03-01 05:45 pm UTC (link)
Someday I hope to fail as a cartoonist half as much as Frank Miller.

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(no subject) - [info]mr_sadhead, 2009-03-01 05:51 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]frippy
2009-03-01 05:37 pm UTC (link)
I'm that way with adaptations from books I've already read -- for me, it's a matter of saving myself time and money by knowing in advance that I'm generally dissatisfied with adaptations. I can't be pleased if they deviate from the source material or if they slavishly adhere to it. And my mental images of what I read never match up to the output on the screen and I'm often disappointed. (I was reading Peanuts the other day and thinking about how my mental voices for the characters don't match the ones used in the animated specials -- as much as I liked Snoopy, those mismatched voices bothered me when I was young.)

As for films based on comics, well, I did like Persepolis because it maintained the artistry and spirit of the graphic novels, but it was also animated and I like animation. I most likely wouldn't have bothered watching a live-action adaptation. I read comics for the drawings. Take the illustrations out and you just have an indie film about kids in art school or whatever.

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[info]coyotecoyote
2009-03-01 05:53 pm UTC (link)
I saw Art School Confidential, and it was OK, but I've been wondering if a feature-length movie with characters and a plot can really be considered to be an adaptation of the four-page article comic it was inspired by...

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[info]ellenlindner
2009-03-01 07:07 pm UTC (link)
I agree - Persepolis does not disappoint (to say the least!). Vincent Peronnaud, the co-director, is a cartooning and animation genius, and Persepolis had a great narrative to work with - straightforward yet poignant, and full of historical and cultural texture to work with. It wasn't a big budget Hollywood film, so I don't know if it's germane to this discussion, but - wow! I honestly didn't know if I'd ever see a truly amazing full-length hand-drawn (or even hand-drawn LOOKING) film again. I didn't know they were still possible! It felt like seeing a yeti, while seeing one of the X-Men films - however much I love the X-Men - just feels like seeing, yawn, yet another film chock-full of convincing-but-overly slick CGI. It just looks too easy. Check out Peronnaud's Villemolle if you get a chance - it is super silly, and involves zombies, medieval rapping, French local government and Blutch.

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[info]coyotecoyote
2009-03-01 05:38 pm UTC (link)
I think I have the same brand of disinterest about comic book movies and film adaptations in general. I may have enjoyed The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, and I may not think a film adaptation delegitimizes Huckleberry Finn in any way, but I don't have this overwhelming desire to sit through every film adaptation of the book ever made.

Though I do really want to see Coraline.

(Reply to this)


[info]tormentedartist
2009-03-01 06:25 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you about the comicbook movies. Honestly it drives me crazy when people get so excited about these movies. Its like they care more about the fucking movie than the comic that inspired it in the first place.

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[info]lou_bevlo
2009-03-01 08:31 pm UTC (link)
The general public does care more about the movie.

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[info]supakhai
2009-03-01 06:38 pm UTC (link)
Well, and this is only a guess on my part, but I think the reason they chose to put Ozymandius and the others in outfits reminiscent of some of the crappier, big budget superhero movies is the same reason that they wore crappy revisions of old superhero tights in the books. It's a play on the ridiculousness of superhero genre norms. I may be madly in love with Superman, but I still recognize the silliness of his outfit. These days, the majority of people I talk to who are "totally into comics!" really mean "I have seen movie adaptaions of comic books." "The Clooney," as I think we all should call it from now on, is what they attribute to superheroes these days. I had a teacher for a "critical thinking" class who wrote on my thesis paper deconstructing superheroes 'But they don't really wear the tights anymore, though,' like that was his insight. Yes, yes they do, but just not with the incarnations 80% of people recognize. Aaaaanyway, that took to long, but I think it was the right choice on the costume designer/producer/whoever's part.

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[info]evandorkin
2009-03-01 07:36 pm UTC (link)
Funny though, how the women always somehow end up in in costumes of the thinnest material, exposing the most flesh, by and large. Other than Doc Nudie Blue, of course. The boys get to wear body armor and masks and thick padding, the chicks have to work the runway.

I don't think the Niteowl/Ozymandius costumes are a play on anything, personally. I think they're the action heroes and they have the most bizarre/difficult outfits to adapt, and they reworked them, and that's what they got. Batsuits. Sorta makes sense in that Owl is Batman, or the Blue Beetle, same thing, for the original project. Oz's is particularly ludicrous, even by 80's standards. Even by 30's standards. I think the Burton Bat-era design has taken a hold of certain designers and filmmakers. That still doesn't lead me to understand why the domino masks, yeah, they're in the original, but they look like Halloween costume imbeciles. And, statement or no, I really and truly don't think Snyder et al wanted any of these characters to look silly or make a statement about them looking silly, which still requires them to look silly. That's what you had Mothman around for. There's a reason Niteowl doesn't have a middle-aged gut, which would have made a bolder, if small, statement, than goofing with the costumes.

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(no subject) - [info]supakhai, 2009-03-01 09:05 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]algy
2009-03-01 07:07 pm UTC (link)
I'm just burned out on the Watchmen. At first it was cool all these viral promotions around the Interwebs, but as we've gotten closer to the release, I've really lost interest. It's getting so I can't even see yellow and black together without my mind shutting down.

What I really like about going to movies is a new experience. With adaptations of a well known comic books either they'll try something new and anger the die hard fans or do a slavish retread of the material and bore me.

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[info]craigjclark
2009-03-02 03:05 am UTC (link)
I'm still interested in seeing Watchmen, but it may be one of the last big-budget, special effects-driven extravaganzas I see for a while. About a month back I was at the movies and saw trailers for the likes of the Star Trek reboot and the new Terminator movie, both of which are coming out this summer, and I just couldn't dredge up any interest in seeing either one of them. So it's not just superhero movies for me. I guess I'm just spectacled out.

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[info]cyanidefish
2009-03-02 04:03 am UTC (link)
Last comic book movie I saw (last movie I saw in a theater, actually) was The Spirit, which I undoubtedly would have despised if I'd had any familiarity with the original material.

As it was, I thought it was the best surrealist comedy of 2008. So I was, at least, entertained by it.

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[info]me666iahcomplex
2009-03-02 05:40 am UTC (link)
Would "Unbreakable" count as a comic book movie? Although it isn't based upon an actual comic book, its reliance upon the touchstones of comic book archetypes drives the entire movie. I'm massively impressed by it, I'll defend it, I recommend it, but I sense that if you're looking for the well-deserved blunt superhero fun, you'll probably be passing it by.

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[info]evandorkin
2009-03-02 05:01 pm UTC (link)
I liked the basic concept of Unbreakable, enjoyed the first some-odd minutes, did not like the execution, actual plot or film. The ending was particularly terrible, imo.

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[info]gan_chan
2009-03-02 06:33 am UTC (link)
I'm there with you on the burnout thing, Evan. I can't seem to muster any real enthusiasm for any of the geekery I used to cream my jeans over. There are still comics, TV shows, and movies that I read/watch and enjoy, but I never seek them out or get excited or chase rumors or start countdowns or stand in lines...

I think I'm just running out of pixie dust.

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[info]lois2037
2009-03-02 07:37 am UTC (link)
*sigh* I guess we'll always be hopeless fangeeks at my household. We can't wait to see Watchmen, went to most of the other recent big-screen superhero/comics adaptations, and really only regretted seeing The Spirit. It doesn't hurt that most of them come to our local theater which is very, very inexpensive, or will be playing second run at a discount theater. There's something just silly and satisfying about seeing grown people in ludicrous costumes doing improbable things.

I'm getting to have those feelings about going to conventions, though. Too much media hype, not enough comics, overcrowded, too expensive for the more interesting, smaller dealers to attend. And storm troopers. Can you tell I went to San Diego North WonderCon? It's made me all crabby.

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[info]schung1968
2009-03-02 08:12 am UTC (link)
Lois,

Re: Wondercon. Looks like they used only half the auditorium for the con. I was glad to see Richard Kiel and get an autographed picture of him from "To Serve Man" episode of the Twilight Zone, likewise meeting Malachi Throne, and getting an autographed picture of False-Face with Batman from the 1960s series.

I ignore the media hype and concentrate on the comics.

It was funny seeing who was charging for their autograph and who was charging for having their picture taken.

Standouts at Wondercon were Richard Kiel and having a chance to chat with Steve Englehart about those 1970s comics he wrote.

For instance, he was surprised that I enjoyed those Dreaded Deadline Doom fill-ins, and I explained as a young beginning reader, there weren't comic shops back then. In order to learn more about Mar-Vell, I really enjoyed when Marvel Super-Heroes was reprinted in Cap's mag.

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(no subject) - [info]lois2037, 2009-03-02 03:13 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]evandorkin, 2009-03-02 05:16 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schung1968, 2009-03-03 07:24 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lois2037, 2009-03-04 12:05 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]evandorkin, 2009-03-04 01:59 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lois2037, 2009-03-04 05:34 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schung1968, 2009-03-06 06:34 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lois2037, 2009-03-06 11:01 am UTC (Expand)

(Anonymous)
2009-03-02 11:21 pm UTC (link)
there is much faggotry afoot here.

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[info]evandorkin
2009-03-03 12:12 am UTC (link)
And your alternative is...to be an asshole?

Thanks for being Internet Douchebag #9,987,463 of the calendar year so far.

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[info]mechanicaljewel
2009-03-03 04:59 am UTC (link)
I am so with you here, especially about all this bullshit about Zack Snyder being ~*~visionary~*~. I was never against the whole idea of a Watchmen movie, and was even curious in the early stages, but the first trailer absolutely killed it for me.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2009-03-03 03:51 pm UTC (link)
Dont sweat it. I doubt you're missing anything. Watchmen was a crap book to begin with.

(Reply to this)

Speaking of comic book movies...
[info]patrickdean
2009-03-04 05:06 pm UTC (link)
Have you seen the live action Cromartie High movie?

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Re: Speaking of comic book movies...
[info]evandorkin
2009-03-04 11:15 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, it was okay. I laughed a few times, but nowhere near as often as some of the better comics. I mean, there were some fun parts, and its amiable enough, but on the whole I thought it was mediocre. It really fell apart for me once the alien investigation team/invasion plot kicked in. Drag city, with some endlessly long, unfunny scenes. Sometimes it fell flat trying to capture the Cromartie "banality", other times the physical comedy and "wackiness" was weak, empty or out of place. I don't think I would have liked it much at all if I wasn't aware of/fond of the source material.

I couldn't get through more than an episode of the anime. That really didn't work for me. Sometimes comics just do things best.

Although I really think a Cromartie play could work.

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Re: Speaking of comic book movies... - [info]patrickdean, 2009-03-05 06:11 pm UTC (Expand)

(Anonymous)
2009-03-06 05:18 pm UTC (link)
I just don't like that as a comics fan, if I ever tell anyone I dislike Alan Moore or that I am completely disinterested in everything he touches, I'm looked at as some sort of idiot.

So sometimes I pretend I enjoy Alan Moore and have read his books or sometimes I stay silent.

I don't think in order to like comics that I should have Watchmen or V for Vendetta and whatever else as quintessential books that I should have read and owned at this point. It's just stupid in my opinion that there is only one comic book writer that makes it a higher art, and the man can't even draw. Everything pales in comparison to Alan Moore, I know I know. Yech.

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[info]evandorkin
2009-03-07 09:24 pm UTC (link)
If it matters any, plenty of folks don't buy into the fan party line. I don't blame Alan Moore, the fans have anointed him, and others, and made it hard to say "Well, yeah, I guess, but it just doesn't really do it for me" (see art Spiegelman, Grant Morrison, name yer poison) for fear of the response. Personally, I've been left cold by almost everything Alan Moore has done as time has passed. I like Watchmen, Swamp Thing...some Tom Strong stuff was fun for a while, batch of short strips like Pictopia are nifty. Haven't read From Hell, yet. V For Vendetta faded for me big-time over time, ditto Miracleman. He's super-intelligent, super-capable, talented, yes, yes. Writes well. Sure. Ambitious. Sees his concepts though, builds worlds (atop other worlds, though, and the work of others, in a way that always bothered me. So many ideas riffing off other ideas, so many old characters, old concepts received as unique and original only because no one had done them in comics). Still, it all leaves me cold. The formal play deadens a lot of his books for me rather than enlivens, the scenarios and plots are very familiar as he retreads and reworks and reconstructs, his characters don't "live" for me but instead exist as well-designed mechanical constructs with Things To Do and Things To Say, his outright humor comics fall dead flat for me, and his grand ideas and meta-twists and psychadelicas come off as ponderous and overworked and...I dunno...hippy-dippy, for lack of a better word. Sometimes I just want him to get on with it. Even when just fucking around he can't help but tap dance while juggling and blowing bubbles and hitting the bong all at the same time. I get distracted and become disinterested and start playing "spot the source material" or "I wonder what drugs were available in the house when he wrote that?". I appreciate, admire, respect and don't hate, but I really don't often enjoy. Maybe it's me.

I will say some of his fans come off as self-congratulatory jagoffs who need to loudly broadcast their literacy and astuteness so they are noticed and patted on the head and given a treat. The letters page of LOEG was a fucking embarrassment. Gah. Like no one ever read a fucking Henry James book before. Give me a No-Bel Prize, I spotted Daisy Miller in the Bunch of Public Domain Characters adventure! Look, I'm writing in Victorian!

Anyway, whatever. I don't hate on the Alan Moore, for whatever it's worth. I just don't read his stuff anymore. No disrespect to those that loves him.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]spook_town, 2009-03-12 02:06 am UTC (Expand)

[info]rashism
2009-03-07 08:42 am UTC (link)
I think you'd like the Watchmen, Evan. Give it a shot. If not in the movie theater, then at home when it is released to DVD. It's not nearly as bad as everyone is saying.

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[info]evandorkin
2009-03-07 09:34 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, but there's so many things I haven't seen that I know for sure I want to sit through, for good or bad. Can't watch them all. I watched the opening credits online, and that was good enough for me. There were things I liked, but there were deal breakers, like the unintentionally (I think) funny grassy knoll bit. I laughed. He looked so silly, like he just pulled a prank.

And all the bad stuff going on just reminded me of how infuriatingly ineffective the god-like Doc Manhattan is. Split yourself up, dude, and patrol a little. Save our boys in Vietnam! Stop communism! Save the President and the hippies! I don't buy whatever the contrivance was that kept the plot from stopping dead because naked blue god can't just do some mammajamma sub-atomic magic. Whatever. And the reality-benders are always worse in live action.

I would, however, probably go see a Minutemen movie (or serial). The costumes looked so much niftier, and I liked the period, for the most part. And boy, do gals just look a thousand times better in the crazy fetish costumes than guys. I like how the Silhouette (is that her name?) appears to have the super-power to identify lesbians in a crowd. Doesn't it look like she's assessing everyone until she gets to the nurse?

Anyway, yeah. Someday, most likely. But maybe not. Like it matters to anyone.

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(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2009-03-13 07:48 am UTC (Expand)

[info]the_new_zer0
2009-03-13 07:23 pm UTC (link)
i mean, really evan, who watches the watchmen? Maybe they'll get the molded muscle costumes right in the Scott Pilgrim movie. We can hope.

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