evandorkin: Stupid Wizard (Or, The Mystery DC Project Revealed)

Evan Dorkin (

evandorkin) wrote,
@ 2004-02-03 04:27:00

Current mood:	Retaliatory
Current music:	Fats Waller on Danny Stiles radio show

Stupid Wizard (Or, The Mystery DC Project Revealed)
I'll keep this short, because I ended up posting like a crazy MF on the previous DF thread, when I was supposed to only be taking a half hour break from the board.

So, as Matt pointed out, the latest issue of Wizard Magazine ran a piece on the DC project that I've been working on (the one I've been asked to keep quiet about, fat lot of good that did.) So, yeah, I'm writing a Metal Men limited series for DC and Mike Allred is pencilling it. It's six issues, and it involves the Metal Men, and that's pretty much all I'm gonna say about it right now other than I've finished two scripts, it's not on schedule as far as I know, and it should be a lot of fun.

This isn't a really big deal, but I'm already pissed at Wizard for ignoring World's Funnest, and using my name in an ad for Wizard Edge in Previews, which said they were running an interview with me in the magazine when I was never approached about. And of course the magazine didn't even mention me or anything I was working on (The similarly advertised Jhonen Vasquez interview also never appeared). Anyway, I was being a good soldier and keeping my yap shut about the Metal Men, and I personally like keeping things quiet until they're ready to be announced, so I wish they kept their big "coup" to themselves. Whatever. At least now I don't have to keep it a secret. We're doing a Metal Men series, huzzah.

Anyway, I better get back to work.. I crashed yesterday and ended up sleeping something like 14 hours in a twenty hour period, and didn't get up until 5 this afternoon. I'm way behind and everything's nuts.

(Post a new comment)

thelatespaceboy
2004-02-03 03:04 am UTC (link)

this is probably a ridiculously over-asked question, but i'm ignorant to most well-known modern comic demi-god lore so i'll ask anyway, in hopes that you're in a sporting sort of mood... what is your work schedule typically like, as far as time devoted to certain tasks? and for double(triple?)-jeopardy, how did you manage your art/writing schedule when you were "breaking in", so to speak? what did you do for a livin'?

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Re:

evandorkin
2004-02-03 08:44 am UTC (link)

My work schedule changes depending on my mood (swings) and the job or jobs at hand. I tend to overthink and overworry about everything, all my jobs take me far longer than they should and I have trouble starting anything. I freeze up and overwrite or do numerous layouts or compile so many notes/reference that I'm stifled by the amount of material. Happens all the damned time. I work "college style", meaning, I wait until it's almost too late and then start cramming. The only time I seem to work more logically is when I'm doing illustration work, or, oddly, charity work. When I do stuff for a magazine I'm all over it. Generally, I'm good with the tv stuff. I used to be good with comic deadlines until this past year. I'm trying to get back on top of everything, I overbooked myself and then melted down from the pressure/workload.

As for a typical workday, I tend to go about 6 to 10 hours depending on what I'm doing, how I'm doing, how my hand is holding up. As I get older I find I can't do the 14 - 18 hour days anymore, the old norm. 18 hours, sleep a few, then another similar shift, until done or crash. Sometimes a 24 hour Bataan death march, which used to be fairly typical here at the HOF during the pre e-mail days. Might have to pull a few on Hellboy, not looking fwd to it. probably can't even do it anymore. I can't ever seem to estimate correctly how long a job will take, and my dense art style often throws my schedule off. I'm late, but I'm still pencilling cramped panels that I'll need to ink, and I hand letter, and fill in blacks by hand, so it's all time consuming. I can't yet use the computer for those things, I like working on the page directly.

Writing-wise, I tend to get bogged down micro-managing sections of the script and getting way too anal about everything from dialogue to sound effects, I worry a lot about script readability and detail. When I get a handle on a project I work every day until it's done. A project I'm unhappy with becomes an albatross and I procrastinate wildly and work on something else. A job like this Hellboy strip, I've worked every day for the last three plus weeks, I'd say on average 9-10 hours a day, only leaving the house for food/xeroxing/mail. When this happens we get on the dreaded "reverse schedule", meaning we wake up at night and go to sleep in the day ("vampire hours). We're on that schedule now, which is more and more depressing as we get older, it's almost noon and Sarah's in bed and I'm heading in as soon as I finish this and make a few more pencil lines on a page.

I wish I had a better/pat answer about my "typical" schedule, because I don't have one. I work until the thing's done, and I spend far too much time on almost all of it owing to fussiness, anal-retentiveness, lack of fundamental skills and an inability to leave the page alone. I don't analyze my working methods very well (because it depresses me, for one thing), I just work until it's done and think very hard about what I'm doing and how I'm doing it and try to learn and try to gain confidence so I can work smarter and faster on the next job.

Anyway, if you have a more specific question or questions about working methods or what have you, feel free to ask away. A general question posed to me gets rambling gobbledygook like this, esp. when I've been up a long time and I'm feeling crabby about how the late shift went. Tonight was largely a bust, a hell of a lot of erasing went on, if you know what I mean.

Good afternoon.

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Sorry to (sort of) spoil the surprise
(Anonymous)
2004-02-03 04:48 am UTC (link)

Did I say I was reading Wizard? Er, what I meant was, I was reading a comics magazine that shall remain nameless. As for why, well, to find Super-Scoops like this, obviously.

I knew I'd get some grief for that. But, working in a comics shop, I think it's my responsibility to read damn near everything I can get my mitts on, including some (a lot of) stuff that isn't the greatest the industry has to offer. Hey, if I were on the other side of the counter, I sure wouldn't be reading Wizard. Oh, except for that edgy Wizard Edge, with their edgy articles about comics on the edge. Extreme!

Sorry to spoil the surprise. I thought that since the info was out there, it would be cool to mention it. Please don't lump me in with Wizard now.

Matt

mtraughber@hotmail.com

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	Re: Sorry to (sort of) spoil the surprise evandorkin 2004-02-03 08:04 am UTC (link)
	Relax your ass. You didn't write the blurb in the magazine. I'm glad you asked about it. You're the only person in America who bothered to notice, apparently. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	calpico_boy 2004-02-03 06:18 am UTC (link)
	Metal Men! Now I can break out my assortment of Metal-Men T-Shirts! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: evandorkin 2004-02-03 08:03 am UTC (link)
	That can wait. Break out the Gloomy Beat T-shirts! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ianbrill 2004-02-03 08:57 am UTC (link)
	This is good news, and I'm glad it's a mini. There's no way I can afford to pick up another ongoing. Six issues of Dorkin and Allred and it's a lot of fun? I'm there! (Reply to this)

hmmm... Metal Men

cerebud
2004-02-03 09:45 am UTC (link)

I haven't read anything with Metal Men that I liked, although I think the few times I've read them, they were guest stars in some other book. Are they supposed to be funny? Or are they like the FF or something? My old boss at the comic store I worked at likes them, but I don't get it.

Allred rocks though. I was just flipping through the really cool Untold Tales of Spider-man annual that he did, and he captured the 60's Marvel era style perfectly. A fun book that's well worth hunting down, especially for the Human Torch/Spider-man rivalry stuff. Busiek's writing was great on it too. I miss books like that!! Fun superheroes!

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...and to continue from yesterday's thread...

cerebud
2004-02-03 10:37 am UTC (link)

(I would post this to yesterday's thread, but I wasn't sure if you'd read it).

I'm getting a kick out of these stories about comics pros. Dave Sim's a dick? Holy crap. I love the hell out of Cerebus (obviously). I'd hate to meet him and have my enjoyment of the comic ruined because he was an asshole.

I'm not totally surprised. I met Colleen Doran when she did a signing at the comic store I worked at, and she said he was being an asshole. This was when Colleen, Dave, Jeff Smith, etc, were such a great 'team' of self-published creators. Then, Dave wrote crappy stuff about them in Cerebus, and they all got pissed at him.

The greatest pro I've met was Will Eisner. He was being honored at the Library of Congress here in DC. I got there early, and saw the room fill up to standing room only. The range of people there was great, old and young, men and women, people from all backgrounds. It was only supposed to be a half hour event, but Will talked about comics for forty five minutes, then he answered questions from the audience for another half hour. He had a big slide show presentation about what his influences were, how he came up with the term 'graphic novel', etc. You could tell he was beaming about receiving the honor with a huge crowd, and not just his normal comic con geek crowd. He even commented on it, in fact.

I didn't bring anything for him to sign, since I didn't think he'd DO a signing, but he did. I think Will's in his mid-eighties, and he just talked for over an hour, then he decides to hang out in the hall to the conference room to sign books for at least another 45 minutes. They had a book of his for sale in the lobby that I bought and had him sign. I basically told him that he was one of the few comics professionals that 'get it'. That comics are a unique art form to themselves. I was quick about it, and nervous as hell, but he was such a gentleman.

Fantastic guy, still sharp as hell, and he's still churning out books. We owe so much to that guy.

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Re: hmmm... Metal Men

evandorkin
2004-02-03 08:00 pm UTC (link)

Here's my take on the MM -- everyone seems to be really fond of them, but when you ask someone what they like about the MM, they tend to hesitate, and then they look a little confused. And they stammer something to the effect that the characters are really great-looking and well designed, and have funky powers and have a goofy charm about them, and they love the Silver Age guys, etc etc. And I wholeheartedly agree, the MM are nifty characters, wonderfully designed by Ross Andru and renedered intitially by Andru and Mike Esposito. But then you ask them, "What's your favorite Metal Men story?", and they draw a blank (Save for the hardcore Silver Age MM fans, of course, I mean, every character ever printed has it's stalwart fans who remember every-single-damned-thing, but these characters simply have more goodwill with readers than readers, if you see what I'm getting at).

IMHO, the MM comics have been, well, not so good. Actually, I thought they were pretty bad. Okay, it was sheer hell reading the first 30 issues of MM, sorry MM fans, Kanigher fans, Silver Age aficianados, just my opinion. And it came as a real surprise, because I was looking forward to reading this stuff, as I was one of those people who liked the MM via comic shop osmosis in the '80's, through Crisis, Who's Who, covers and fanzines, etc. But I never actually read a MM comic until I found one in a dollar bin three or four years ago, and holy moley, it was terrible stuff, even as a kiddie comic. But back then I liked the idea of the characters and the visuals, so much so that I drew the MM into my first attempt at sample pages aimed for DC (which I never sent in, I still have them).

Anyway, the point is, the MM are really cool characters in search of something crazy to do. There were some nutty characters and ideas in the old books (Chemo? A plastic container man filled with toxic crap? Bring it the hell on!) but far too few, and this was all in the first batch of books -- the series was repetitive and hacked out, the characters were six cyphers with very similar powers, and only the visuals and the sheer likeability of the six (for a time, seven) robots carried any weight. The '70's and '80's and '90's saw retcons and fannish reworkings (hell, even earlier, they were so desperate the MM adopted human skin disguises and became an ersatz Challengers of the Unknown) that I think cut into the basic charm of the characters. There's some fun to be had with the short '70's Simonson-drawn run, I think Gerber wrote those, but they date kind of badly (like most everything '70's, imho). But they at least tried, and brought a much-needed enthusiasm to the series, and they understood the utter wonk the characters needed to be surrounded with. Sort of like how, imho, Plastic Man and Captain Marvel aren't inherently funny in and of themselves, but everything around them is (or should be). The MM need to be matched wonk for wonk (there's a phrase that pays), we're simply trying to place them in surroundings and situations that play to their strenghts and prop up their limitations. They look great, are inherently fun characters, they just need some juicing to prop them up. And I'm not trying to come off as arrogant by saying we're "fixing" them or doing them "right", we're just trying to deliver solid entertainment for your $3, do right by the characters without being retro-slavish or retcon crazy, throw a lot of visuals and action and humor and craziness and hope it all works. Robots shouldn't be boring, that's all I'm saying.

And you won't need to know decades of continuity to "get" the series. Crazy Doc Magnus made some crazy robots, and crazy times in America and crazy technology cause some crazy things to happen. There will be fun, dammit. Now start saving your dough, and tell your local shopkeep to order strong and long and he can't go wrong.

Ha ha ha, did I really just type that?

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Re: hmmm... Metal Men
(Anonymous)
2004-02-04 01:40 pm UTC (link)

>>Save for the hardcore Silver Age MM fans, of course, I mean, every character ever printed has it's stalwart fans who remember every-single-damned-thing<<

You rang? ;-)

Well, even if you are a philistine who doesn't appreciate the transcendent genius of Robert Kanigher (ho ho), I'm still looking forward to this. I know you and Mr. Allred will do a bang-up job. Can't wait.

But come on... it's not just a Man-Horse From Hades... it's not even a Giant Man-Horse From Hades... it's a GIANT ROBOT MAN-HORSE FROM HADES! Poetry, I'm tellin' ya, sheer poetry!

- J. Kevin Carrier, liquid at room temperature

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Comic Book: The Movie

evilsicksix6
2004-02-03 12:57 pm UTC (link)

Just curious if you got to see Comic Book: The Movie. I picked it up on sale the other day, hoping it would be decent, based on some of the cameos, but it was pretty bad. It just seems like Mark Hamill got together with some of his voice acting buddies and decided to film themselves at the San Diego Comic Con, and loosely base it around some lame story. It wasn't even all that original of a story. Hamill makes out that this is some huge love letter from him to his fellow comic fans. If this were the case, he should have just done a real documentary at the con, instead of mockumentary about a pissed off fan, angry that his favorite 1940's Batman/Captain America ripoff character, is being redesigned for a new movie. It was nice to see some of the cameos but they couldn't even save the film. Actually, the second disc of the set, has a voice actor seminar piece, that's much better than the movie is.

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	Re: Comic Book: The Movie evandorkin 2004-02-03 08:03 pm UTC (link)
	I have no desire to see this at all. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Comic Book: The Movie

evilsicksix6
2004-02-03 08:28 pm UTC (link)

On a better note, I also just picked up Battle Royale 2, at Kim's in NYC. Only got to watch 30 minutes of it so far but it seems pretty good. I remember talking about the first one with you on the old AOL board and wasn't sure if you knew the 2nd one was out. Starts off as kind of a scene for scene rehash of the first one but then spins off on it's own thing right as you get used to that.

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	rootstudio 2004-02-03 03:47 pm UTC (link)
	Ooooooh... Metal Men... Robots are one of those things that are always awesome (like pirates or ninjas...) although when I first saw the entry heading I thought your new project was "Stupid Wizard"... *"HAY GUISE! Ahm gonna kest me sum spellz!!! LOL ^_^"* (Reply to this)

	fpod 2004-02-03 04:07 pm UTC (link)
	The Metal Men project sounds f'n cool. I've got a sort of left-field question for you, though. What kind of brush do you ink with? I only ask because I went to buy one the other day and I was clueless. Thanks. (Reply to this) (Thread)

Re:

evandorkin
2004-02-03 07:09 pm UTC (link)

I'm as clueless as you are, I hate to say. I grew up incredibly ignorant about art supplies and methods, and I'm still behind the curve. I did my comics the same size as they were printed, which is why to this day my work is cluttered. I thought comic creators drew everything at the size it was printed. I drew my earliest comics in ball point pen (25 cent Bic black with the cap that looked a little like a rocket ship). I "graduated" to a dollar Woolworths pen nib and ink set when I was about 13. Had no idea artists used corrective white ink or pasted down corrections. When I made a mistake, blobbing ink or laying down a stray errant line, I'd compensate by turning the mistake into a shape or design ro cover it up. Didn't know about rapidographs until high school, and then used them more than I should have. Never picked up a brushg until I was in my mid to late twenties, really, and when I did start fumbling with brushes, I used #1 and 2 thin brushes, noodling with them endlessly like a pen nib and laying down messy endless lines without rhyme or reason.

Anyway, here's the tool rundown for those that care: At some point (no pen pun intended) I ended up using a Hunt 102 pen point as my main weapon. What I ink with nowadays is a Hunt 22B, backed up heavily by the trusty Hunt 102, and occasionally a Hunt 101 for detail. I also throw some calligraphy points in the mix for effects. I use a brush more often than I used to, but I use cheap crap, Loew-Cornell 795 Round series, #'s 2, 3 and 4, or whatever is around in a pinch. I hope to experiment with brushes again someday, but the time never seems to come for that, not when the job is at hand and I'm trying to do my best with the work. I ruined the only "standard" Winsor Newyton series 7 expenso brushes I tried, and tend to buy a bunch of brushes and toss them fairly quickly, as I'm hell on a brush and never learned to dip them correctly or use them efficiently. Dave Mazzucchelli always bugged me to work more with brushes, but I've never developed any real proficiency or confidence with them. I mainly use them as a part of my "arsenal", as back up for the pen, laying down thick lines or doing hair and clothing or "organic" objects that I want to give a softer feel or effect to.

Continued in next post...

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Re:

evandorkin
2004-02-03 07:11 pm UTC (link)

I use Kohinoor rapidographs and letter mainly with the #2, using the #3 and #4 for emphasized text, i.e. all the screaming my characters do. I also use pens for some lettering if I want a certain effect, crazed or spindly (see the "Marathon Men" Eltingville strip for an example). Recently I've used a Rotring Rapidoliner for some lettering, the .70, and I'm planning on exploring some other point sized. I've been doing some tight, thin detail work with a Japanese pen, a Tachikawa 300 NP-30 which I got at JHU, of all places. I have future plans to futz around with Japanese brush pens. I use Pentel correction pens for mistakes, and Pro White ink for mistakes/effects with a brush. I used to do white on black lettering with a pen and watered down Pro-White, occasionally I'd fill a spare #2 rapidograph with white ink. Nowadays I letter in black and Sarah reverses it on the computer, it was a painstaking method that often printed terribly, and the reversal method works really well and looks better. I use Q-tips to lay in large black areas, and then fill the gaps with a brush or a thick rapidograph. I could use the computer but I can't succumb to it yet, I need to see the black on the page and am too anal, plus I kind of enjoy spotting blacks by hand. A toothbrush is handy for spatter effects, and I've used a razor blade to get scratch effects in black. I use Prismacolor PC919 non-photo blue pencils for layouts and roughs, and a mess of "regular" pencils, 2B, 4B, 2H for tentatoive noodling when I'm lost on an image, and I use a plain Ticonderoga #2 a hell of a lot. Erasers - kneaded, Staedler mars plastic in a holder, plastic block, and the Tuff Stuff plastic holder which has a really thin nib eraser point that can get into small tight areas and rip heavy pencil lines out fairly easily without murdering the page. I use lousy plain old Higgins Black magic ink because I don't know anything about ink, something I'm gonna change one day but I still have a lot of it around and I simply am ignorant. I always promise myself to explore more supply options, but get bogged down and never do it, supplies aren't cheap and disappointments abound when you try something. What Sarah and I always tell people re: supplies is, don't be i9ntimidated by cost or what "the pros" use, whatever works best for you and gets the desired effect without compromise is fine. But you should be aware of the choices and what's out there, so you're not stuck ina niche, like I have been often, without knowing your options and what else is out there. So, don't feel you must use the Winsor Newton Series 7 standard, but if it works for you, by all means, go for it.But if a sponge and #2 pencils and a rag works, use them as well. Use anything and everything, the end result is what's most important, not having a certain pricey item or spending a lot of dough and then thinking you're set because of the pedigree of your supplies.

The end.

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Re:

cerebud
2004-02-04 01:40 pm UTC (link)

You should really keep that answer in a FAQ on your web site. I'm sure you must get asked that a lot.

As far as Comic Book the Movie goes, it wasn't bad for what it was. The redeeming thing about it are the special features. Hamill knows his stuff. He interviewed Hugh Heffner for a long ass time about his role in comics. I didn't even know Jack Cole worked for Playboy. There's also interviews with Stan Lee, Kevin Smith, Matt Groening, etc. If you like cartoon voice actors, the comicon panel was fun too. It's really more worth it for the interviews than any plot thing going on. I say it's a fun fan film, with zero budget.

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Re:

evandorkin
2004-02-04 10:53 pm UTC (link)

Do we really need yet another fanblind interview with Stan Lee (that reveals nothing), or worse, with Kevin Smith (that reveals nothing but his utter vacuousness)? I'm sorry, I'm bored and slightly appalled by this seemingly endless fanboy circle jerk between Lee, Smith, Hamill and their assorted cronies and sycophants. Lee is in Smith's bad movie. SMith puts Hamill in his bad movie. Smith interviews Lee in a (I'm assuming) crappy DVD. Hamill begs Lee and Smith to be in his dumbass direct to fanboy home movie. Fans of Smith et al can probably come up with more examples. I realize I'm saying this sight unseen, but I have no interest in this umpteenth fan pablum and lower level celebrity clusterfuck. I'm glad you got some history on Cloe there, it's not a secret, in fact Cole's was much-covered after the release of the first Plastic Man archive, see Spiegelman's New Yorkey cover piece, his subsequent book on Close/PM, Comic ARt did a piece on Cole's girlie art, and there's apparently a book of hois non-Playboy girlie panels due out. Hefner was a wannabe cartoonist and fan and that's why Playboy became such a steady, important market for comics and panels, giving Cole a home among many others, and of course, later tossing Kurtzman and Elder (et al) a living w/Little Anni Fannie.

Yeah, Hamill knows his stuff, he's a big fanboy type with mondo access to the funnybook biz due to his revered Lucasfilm involvement. Bullie for him, me, I'd be trying to get laid. Ironically enough, I have a weird/funny story about meeting a very drunk former Luke Skywalker in my hotel room at an early San Diego con. Not in the mood to type it up right now, remind me sometime, but that was a strange ten minutes, we couldn't get the damned Jedi master out of our room. A tape of that would have blown your Comic Book the Home Movie out of the friggin', my friend.

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	Re: evandorkin 2004-02-04 10:57 pm UTC (link)
	Meas Culpa for the typos on Cole's name up there, couldn't figure out how to edit the post. I do know hoe to edit an entry, though. I'll figure it out someday. In the meantime, Cloes or whatever is: Cole or Cole's. Duh. I'm so dumb... (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re:

evilsicksix6
2004-02-05 10:39 am UTC (link)

Even if the interviews weren't that informative, I would have enjoyed it more if they were based on something real. I'm sick of mockumentaries where they get a big name star, the field that the plot is about, to do an interview claiming how the subject of the film was a huge influence on them and are the reason they got into said field. The joke was funny, maybe once, and hasn't been since. The funniest thing on the DVD's was one of the voice actors said. When watching the film, I had no idea, the guys doing the really awful acting, were all voice guys. Then, when watching the seminar disc, one of them claimed that they are the "untapped talent in Hollywood" because you only got to hear their voices. This movie did not prove the point he was trying to make. My main interest was just to check it out. Even though comics are a little more mainstream now, then when I was growing up in my dad's comic book store, I like to see how the mainstream media portrays it from time to time. I also, recently, got to see Comic Book Villains, which, while not perfect, was so much better than Mark Hamill's piece of crap.

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	Stoked. (Anonymous) 2004-02-04 03:55 am UTC (link)
	I love the Metal Men! Love 'em to bits. You'll do a bang-up job, I'm sure. How long 'til it's out? (Reply to this)

	DANGGIT patrickdean 2004-02-10 11:59 am UTC (link)
	Sorry to hear that the project was blown in the pages of that rag, but I'm glad to hear that you're attached to the project. I'll be on the look out for it whenever it comes out. I'll write 'em a nasty letter. The word "fuck" will be in every sentence, I swear. (Reply to this)

kingtycoon
2004-02-15 07:29 am UTC (link)

I'm really excited to see you doing something with Allred. I feel that this is a strong match. Especially - I'm interested in how you'll be making superheroes. On your advice/plea I picked up all 4 issues of the Ben Grim thing you did and it was interesting. I like that you have range - Like, I wouldn't have guessed (sorry I don't mean to be in any way critical) - I just sort of assumed you occilated wildly between enormously funny and absurdly serious - It's neat to see you doing stuff that isn't exactly pathos riddled and also isn't directed at the Laff parts of the brain. Good for you Sir.

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While the lawsuit claims that
(Anonymous)
2004-09-14 08:36 pm UTC (link)

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